1 00:00:00,900 --> 00:00:02,002 ERIN BURNETT: Context here, most people 2 00:00:02,035 --> 00:00:05,138 see Bessent, as, you depending on how they-- they see 3 00:00:05,171 --> 00:00:06,473 the administration in general. 4 00:00:06,506 --> 00:00:08,942 But you will hear things like, he knows what he's doing. 5 00:00:08,975 --> 00:00:09,943 He's a grown-up. 6 00:00:09,976 --> 00:00:12,879 He's the adult in the room, on and on and on. 7 00:00:12,912 --> 00:00:17,117 You don't generally always hear, in general circles, 8 00:00:17,150 --> 00:00:19,252 that he would be somebody that would be making threats 9 00:00:19,285 --> 00:00:20,854 like this that sounds like you're basically 10 00:00:20,887 --> 00:00:22,555 in a high-school locker room. 11 00:00:22,589 --> 00:00:26,226 I mean, can you just explain what even led to this scene? 12 00:00:26,259 --> 00:00:29,129 What is the relationship between Bessent and Pulte? 13 00:00:31,898 --> 00:00:33,433 RACHAEL BADE: Yeah, it's a good question, Erin, 14 00:00:33,466 --> 00:00:36,269 because if you go just back a couple of months ago to May, 15 00:00:36,302 --> 00:00:38,638 President Trump was tweeting that these two men were going 16 00:00:38,671 --> 00:00:41,941 to work together to basically privatize Fannie Mae and Freddie 17 00:00:41,975 --> 00:00:44,511 Mac, the mortgage giants, and here you have 18 00:00:44,544 --> 00:00:45,812 them almost coming to blows. 19 00:00:45,845 --> 00:00:49,315 Look, this was, it looks like, weeks in the making, 20 00:00:49,349 --> 00:00:53,520 and it's basically a classic DC power struggle, a turf war. 21 00:00:53,553 --> 00:00:55,588 Bessent, according to people who are close with him, 22 00:00:55,622 --> 00:01:00,894 feels that Pulte is using this newfound fame he has right now 23 00:01:00,927 --> 00:01:02,962 with Donald Trump because of these investigations, 24 00:01:02,996 --> 00:01:05,098 he's been letting into Trump's critics 25 00:01:05,131 --> 00:01:08,401 to sort of try to bend the ear on policy matters 26 00:01:08,435 --> 00:01:10,336 that Bessent feels are in his own territory 27 00:01:10,370 --> 00:01:12,205 and that he shouldn't be speaking to. 28 00:01:12,238 --> 00:01:14,974 Pulte has felt, according to people close with him, 29 00:01:15,008 --> 00:01:16,743 that Bessent is trying to bigfoot him when 30 00:01:16,776 --> 00:01:18,411 it comes to housing issues. 31 00:01:18,445 --> 00:01:22,982 And these two have been at odds on some big matters recently, 32 00:01:23,016 --> 00:01:24,951 including this notion of whether President Trump 33 00:01:24,984 --> 00:01:27,053 should fire Jerome Powell. 34 00:01:27,087 --> 00:01:29,222 Bessent has been, you know, cautioning 35 00:01:29,255 --> 00:01:32,425 that if he did that, it could destabilize markets. 36 00:01:32,459 --> 00:01:36,029 And then you have Pulte, who's got 3 million Twitter followers, 37 00:01:36,062 --> 00:01:38,064 going on Twitter all the time, sending 38 00:01:38,098 --> 00:01:40,467 hundreds of tweets encouraging Trump 39 00:01:40,500 --> 00:01:42,569 to fire him and get rid of him. 40 00:01:42,602 --> 00:01:45,004 But I think the thing that really set Bessent 41 00:01:45,038 --> 00:01:47,907 off on Wednesday night when this happened last week 42 00:01:47,941 --> 00:01:50,310 was this notion that he was hearing from multiple people 43 00:01:50,343 --> 00:01:53,179 that Pulte was trash talking him to Donald Trump. 44 00:01:53,213 --> 00:01:56,282 He went up, and he had a story on his phone 45 00:01:56,316 --> 00:01:58,618 and specifically asked him, why did you show the president-- 46 00:01:58,651 --> 00:01:59,419 ERIN BURNETT: Oh, wow. 47 00:01:59,452 --> 00:02:00,286 RACHAEL BADE: --this story? 48 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:01,821 Well, the story was actually a headline 49 00:02:01,855 --> 00:02:05,258 that said something along the lines of Bessent 50 00:02:05,291 --> 00:02:07,560 being against firing Jerome Powell. 51 00:02:07,594 --> 00:02:09,829 So, look, it just unraveled from there, 52 00:02:09,863 --> 00:02:12,265 and it is shocking given that, you know, 53 00:02:12,298 --> 00:02:14,467 the public persona of Bessent is that he's 54 00:02:14,501 --> 00:02:16,302 this sort of soothing, calming, sort 55 00:02:16,336 --> 00:02:17,337 of voice in the administration. 56 00:02:17,370 --> 00:02:18,638 ERIN BURNETT: Yes, the Southern gentleman. 57 00:02:18,671 --> 00:02:19,772 RACHAEL BADE: Not that night. 58 00:02:19,806 --> 00:02:23,143 ERIN BURNETT: So not that night, but also, you know, 59 00:02:23,176 --> 00:02:24,344 obviously there's been other times 60 00:02:24,377 --> 00:02:26,846 before when we talked about his relationship with Musk. 61 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,984 But, you know, this night, I mean, just to think about this. 62 00:02:31,017 --> 00:02:32,852 It's incredible to see something like this. 63 00:02:32,886 --> 00:02:35,488 I've never seen two people behave like this, two adult, 64 00:02:35,522 --> 00:02:38,558 grown, professional people in a professional setting in my life. 65 00:02:38,591 --> 00:02:41,227 You report that they're at this incredibly fancy club, half 66 00:02:41,261 --> 00:02:44,931 a million dollars to be there, opening night, 67 00:02:44,964 --> 00:02:47,367 and this happens, and then Bessent wants Pulte kicked out. 68 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,235 I want to read some of your reporting, Rachael. 69 00:02:49,269 --> 00:02:52,038 You say, "It's either me or him," Bessent says 70 00:02:52,071 --> 00:02:54,107 to the co-owner of the club. 71 00:02:54,140 --> 00:02:56,242 "You tell me who's getting the F out of here, 72 00:02:56,276 --> 00:02:58,178 or we could go outside." 73 00:02:58,211 --> 00:02:59,379 "To do what?" asked Pulte. 74 00:02:59,412 --> 00:03:00,480 "To talk?" 75 00:03:00,513 --> 00:03:03,349 "No," Bessent replied, "I'm going to F-in beat your"-- 76 00:03:03,383 --> 00:03:06,119 I mean, this is incredible. 77 00:03:06,152 --> 00:03:11,357 This is a jaw on the floor sort of thing to imagine happening. 78 00:03:11,391 --> 00:03:14,460 RACHAEL BADE: Absolutely, and it took the club co-owner 79 00:03:14,494 --> 00:03:16,629 actually separating these two guys to sort 80 00:03:16,663 --> 00:03:18,131 of get them to calm down. 81 00:03:18,164 --> 00:03:19,933 They put them, as you note at the top of the segment, 82 00:03:19,966 --> 00:03:22,635 on opposite ends of the table. 83 00:03:22,669 --> 00:03:25,738 Yeah, and I would say it took people by surprise 84 00:03:25,772 --> 00:03:28,241 in the room, people who like, you know, both men 85 00:03:28,274 --> 00:03:32,078 and just thought this sort of manner was just inprofessional. 86 00:03:32,111 --> 00:03:33,446 I mean, I guess the question is, does it 87 00:03:33,479 --> 00:03:35,181 make a difference in terms of how Bessent 88 00:03:35,215 --> 00:03:36,816 is viewed by President Trump? 89 00:03:36,849 --> 00:03:38,151 And I'm really not convinced it does. 90 00:03:38,184 --> 00:03:41,154 I mean, the president very much-- he likes-- he likes both 91 00:03:41,187 --> 00:03:43,656 of these guys, honestly, and he sort of 92 00:03:43,690 --> 00:03:46,659 sees Bessent as this sort of Wall Street whisperer. 93 00:03:46,693 --> 00:03:49,796 You can see that he has given him a lot of latitude 94 00:03:49,829 --> 00:03:51,698 and is listening to him when it comes to not 95 00:03:51,731 --> 00:03:53,299 firing Jay Powell right now. 96 00:03:53,333 --> 00:03:55,735 So, yeah, will it impact things? 97 00:03:55,768 --> 00:03:59,505 Probably not, but it certainly is rather ugly.